Item discussion: Godmodding/autoing vs. ... censorship?

[notevendarkyet]

This is regarding a recent discussion which started with a question what is the policy on little_chicago and lil_chicago_ooc regarding slash. It devolved into a discussion of something entirely else.


Item one: I'm posting here, because posting on the ooc comm, since I am a mod, may carry more weight; but I really would like to hear your opinions on this, and when things are clarified, I'll make a post that will also be referenced on the profile of the comm, to avoid further confusion.

Item two: I am confused (and maybe - which I shouldn't be - a little angry) at the way my statement was questioned. My original answer came from interacting with writers who are truly outstanding, and through observing how they treat their writing partners. Did I go too far in responding to those comments? If so, I am sorry - but DO let me know if I have.

Item three: At least my idea of little_chicago as one of a common playground. Where we, well, play together. It really makes sense to me that when you're borrowing someone else's toys where you play with that someone else, it is polite to ask.
In your own journal, you are free to write characters exactly as you wish. Those would be your versions of the characters.
But where we write together, and where what you post will be part of the expectation in how you RP the character in the comm? I think it is only fair to ask if the other writer is OK with their muse being written in a certain direction.
That doesn't mean you have to have an ok for every bit of dialogue, action, etc. But if I say, I am going to write a piece where Harry did NOT reject Justine when Thomas sent her over dressed only in a bow? (this is entirely theoretical, mind you!) I will ask Harry's mun. Heh, I will probably ask Thomas' mun too, to know how he would react to such a take.

Item four: Well, of course, there are exceptions. The most obvious being if you're doing a 'dissection of a scene' from canon. Or if you and the other mun have discussed a certain situation already and you know what their take is.

Item five: Where we play together, making decisions that you don't know the partner you're writing against agrees with? Isn't that, well, godmodding? (After a brief consultation with Wikipedia, maybe the term I should be using is Autoing. But in either case... something that is not covered by 'playing nice'.)

Item six: Telling you what to write (or not to), and how to write your muse, would be, well, putting it bluntly, censorship. This is NOT what I am aiming at, though I know what I'm describing, if taken to extremes, would be just that.
Once you have the opinion of the other mun, exactly WHAT is in your fic is entirely up to you. I am the kind of person who, if there is a remark about my representation of other muses, will change what I have written, but that is by no means obligatory.
Even if you don't have the other writer's permission, YOU COULD STILL WRITE IT. You can be a member of the comms, you can use the comm's prompts, and write it. Just please don't post on the comm unless you have an OK.
I'd be the person who would be OK with reading just about anything. If I don't think that what a fic implies about my muse is consistent with how I write them, I may ask that there is an author's note that states that the fic is NOT-rp-canon-compliant. I have put such labels on my work even without being asked in some cases.

Item seven: I think it's all about respect. Asking about another person's opinion when IT INVOLVES their muse is courteous - it's respectful. And for any community to function smoothly, respect is a very, very important building block.

Comments

[hrothbert.livejournal.com]

I have to admit my confusion also stems from the implication that this is a Dresden-verse community for fic & RP, rather than an RP community that works like a sort of round-robin fic. If that makes sense.

Like Lara!mun, I'm used to writing in prompt communities and playing in my own sandbox. If I write Bob and Harry, I don't need to get the permission of anyone else writing Harry in that particular community because we're not interacting as muses on any level. We're just in the same comm, happily writing our own ficcage in response to the given prompts.

So for someone joining little_chicago expecting "fic" and "RP" to be two separate animals, the implied rules do sound restrictive and confusing.

So if I'm interpreting this all correctly ... Straight RP, sure; that I'll be happy to join in on. But I would be disinclined to post any of my Bob-fics here in response to a prompt because of the requirement to first check (and get implied approval of the plot) from any/all writers of characters referenced in that fic.

[warden-betrayer.livejournal.com]

((Hi there, semi_auto_magic here feeling too lazy to log out))

In the comm that this one is supposed to be patterned after, everything kind of stems from the RPing and community based story telling. There are big sweeping story arcs that can and do effect dozens of the characters at once. Most of the writing that is posted there is in response to those stories. So they're less like straight fics and more like mini stories that flesh out and further the plot of the community.

For instance, one of the first story lines going on here is Maggie's return form the dead. Obviously, thats a big deal for a few characters including (but not limited too) Maggie, Thomas, Harry and Ebenezer. One of the first fics posted here was Maggie leaving Chicago shortly after her miracle return to recover and recuperate back at Eb's farm. If I have time, I'll likely post a fic from Harry's point of view in response to this.

Something to the effect of how even though he knows thats the right course of action and that she's better protected there ... but there's still a child's pain thats strangling him because she back and days ofter being home, she's left him again.

Now, If I'm going to use Thomas in that fic in a capacity more then just mentioning him, I'll probably AIM the mun or send her a copy of the fic after it's finished but before it's post out of courtesy.

And maybe it will be a strong enough piece that Thomas mun would want to RP off of it (and we would do so in the comments) or perhaps Molly will notice that Harry's feeling blue and she'll come to his apartment and try to cheer him up.

If you'd like to write a stand alone fic that's obviously fine. You can post on your journal.

Also, you could drop a link here for the rest of the comm to find the piece if your interested in sharing, but if your doing that and using a taken character, I'd prefer you to just drop the other typist a message that at least says "hey I wrote this fic, Harry's it it. I was going to link the community to it, do you mind?" And I'm sure you'll find that most people will read, tell you how great they think it is and encourage you to post it.

Or at the very least, if you don't contact the mun, when linking the comm there maybe use a "Harry used without permission" disclaimer.

Does this clear anything up? Does it still seem creatively stifling, because I would hate to dissuade you from the comm already ...

[hrothbert.livejournal.com]

Thank you for outlining that. It helps clarify even more and pretty much confirms my thinking. little_chicago is a sort of ongoing round robin kind of fic. A muse might set up a situation (like your example of Maggie's return from the dead) and other muses in the comm react to that with their own fics, which are really just continuations of the story. But to be polite, the writer should get the okay of any other muse in the comm they might reference in their part of the continuation.

So not stand alone fics in addition to RP, which is where I think the initial confusion (and some discomfort about the implied censoring/strictness of the rules) came from. Not only for myself but a few other TDF writers who might have joined except for their own uncertainty/misinterpretation of the user info. (To be honest, I was thinking "Whoa! Too narrow-minded for me!" when I read the initial thread that started this all and nearly quit then and there.)

So let me ask this. In my "20 Facts About Bob", #1 includes "...It was a young thirteen year old wizard by the name of Harry Dresden who first called him 'Bob.'" Should I also have contacted both Harry writers to get permission for that reference? Even though it was implied in the series but never actually stated?

[warden-betrayer.livejournal.com]

Firstly, I'm glad you stuck around long enough for it to be clarified. I don't really think this is a bad system if everyone's on the same page, in fact its worked well for the writers in other comm's. It encourages people to be involved with each other on an in and out of character level which I think is way cooler then your typical "here are the prompts, dump your fics here" kind of system.

In regards to mun permission I think its a matter of judgment. If you think maybe, possibly, you should run something by a mun, why not do it? There aren't any requirements for posts here and no deadlines. I know all the muns (except you, which hopefully will change) I've never had an argument with any of them. All of them are respectful and accommodating in my experience. I've had a blast chatting\RPing\getting to know them all.

You'll never have to contact me about permission unless your situation is specific to Book!Harry. I feel like the show and the novels are completely separate entities and that's why we don't consider them duplicate muses (which aren't allowed because if we had to get multiple permissions from several writers, nothing would ever get written). And I'll admit, my knowledge of the show is kinda limited. I'm TV show friendly, but more of a fan of the books.

Even with my limited knowledge of the show that seems pretty canon to me. Its obvious to even me, who has only watched a handful of the TV shows, TV Bob is a father figure for TV Harry and I wouldn't think your taking much liberty there at all.

[hrothbert.livejournal.com]

I don't really think this is a bad system if everyone's on the same page.

I think that was part of the problem. We weren't on the same page because I'd never encountered your kind of RP before. I'm used to more traditional RP communities. The concept of fic-RP you've described is totally unfamiliar to me and so, as a result, was initially confusing.

An FAQ might help to clear up future concerns and misunderstandings of folks like me who are interested in joining but confused by what, to us, is a "new" concept.

[notevendarkyet.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I think being open for discussion, especially when you don't like something, really helps.

There will be an FAQ, as soon as I catch up with RL and am up to formulating things clearly.
Just so that we don't miss something significant, do you have specific questions that you think necessary, and/or a sample FAQ from another comm that you think is thorough and can help?

[hrothbert.livejournal.com]

At the moment, until applying here, I only actively RP in one community, hearts_andminds, which doesn't have an FAQ but a pretty good profile page. A detailed explanation of how "fic-rp" works, kind of like what you gave me in this thread, would be really helpful for those folks like me who are used to more traditional RP communities.